Myles Dyer tried to save the Zeitgeist Movement

Roxanne Meadows position on TZM using TVP material

TVP position on TZM using TVP materials, UPDATE:

VTV wants to create his own documentary

"TROLL" Documentary FB Page!

Cowpote Radio calls Roxanne Meadows again

VTV causing hysteria

HAHAHA! I'm engaging in Psyops according to VTV.

— The Most Goodest JimJesus🤘🏴💰🍕 (@JimJesus) April 15, 2011

Civil War in Utopia

Civil War in Utopia: My Thoughts on the Schism in the Zeitgeist Movement.

2011 APRIL 20

As someone who has long been very interested in the pathology of organized forms of mass deception—specifically in the form of scams, cults and conspiracy theories—I couldn’t have asked for a more fascinating drama than the one that has unfolded in real time this past week (April 13-20) involving the Zeitgeist Movement. There’s a lot to say about it and a lot of it has already been said, so I’m going to try to limit my comments on recent events to a few main issues, things that I find particularly interesting or illuminating about the schism. Then I’ll offer a few thoughts on what may be the future of the cult.

I won’t waste time and e-ink rehashing what actually happened within the Zeitgeist cult. If you need a refresher, go to the Zeitgeist Movement Exposed blog and click on the entries beginning about April 13. Suffice it to say, cult leader Peter Joseph Merola and design “theorist” Jacque Fresco have had a messy public divorce. Merola has stepped down and walked away from the cult, triggering an exodus of other high-ranking Zeitgeisters, and the remaining members of the cult are understandably bewildered about what happens now that Fresco’s Venus Project has publicly repudiated them. Meanwhile other members, such as Zeitgeist spokesperson Neil “VTV” Kiernan, appear to be positioning themselves to take over as the new leader(s) of the organization.

There are a couple of interesting points that I think deserve to be made about these recent developments.

1. The Ego Issue.

That the schism is mainly a battle of egos seems inarguable. The issue that led to the schism—whether or not Merola’s Zeitgeist Movement would get behind Fresco and the Venus Project’s idea to raise money from its members to make a big-budget propaganda film—was, in my view, a catalyst for the issue of who really controls the Zeitgeist Movement and who will be regarded as its leader and public face. Peter Merola, who came to prominence with his conspiracy theorist film Zeitgeist: The Movie, seems to be quite personally invested in both the adoration he receives from cult members and the unquestioned control he has (until now) exerted over the cult’s orthodoxy and major direction. He has always touted the movement as “the activist arm of the Venus Project,” but when the Venus Project (Fresco) criticized his form of “activism”—and more importantly Merola’s understanding of the group’s dogma and ideology—Merola simply couldn’t handle it. Rather than even make an attempt to reconcile with Fresco and save the cult, Merola took his toys and went home. It’s interesting that Merola’s demand that Roxanne Meadows, Fresco’s longtime girlfriend and chief cohort in the Venus Project, apologize for Fresco’s comments was made only after Merola had already announced his departure. That detail should fool no one. Merola had already decided the cult wasn’t big enough for both egos, and thus he withdrew.

Personally, I’m delighted to see Merola exit the stage, though I’m not entirely convinced he’s stepping away from either the cult-leading business or the conspiracy-theorizing business. What will he do now? I’m not sure, but I would be very surprised if it’s anything over which Merola does not have total control. This incident has demonstrated the inability of either Merola or Fresco to compromise and accept input from others, even when it is in their interests to do so. As a longtime critic of the Zeitgeist Movement—an organization that I believe spreads the brain-corroding poison of conspiracy theories to far too many impressionable young people—I’m certainly not losing any sleep seeing Merola and Fresco turn against each other, especially when the resulting chaos is likely to mean a significant diminution in the influence of either Zeitgeist or Venus. Whether the end of both organizations will come swiftly or gradually, I do believe it’s at least the beginning of the end.

2. Telling Admissions.

In the torrents of words spouted by Zeitgeisters as a result of the schism, a number of very telling admissions have emerged—many of which explicitly validate criticisms I’ve previously made of the movement.

For example, after months of arguing that the Zeitgeist Movement has no leaders, the Zeitgeisters have been surprisingly forthcoming about admitting that yes, they have had a leader all along, and yes, Peter Joseph Merola was he. Take this interesting quote, attributed to Douglas Malletteand quoted by another member on their forum:

“[Mallette:] I’m also kinda sick of the anti-leadership, anti-authority, ‘you’re not the boss of me’ crap. There’s nothing wrong with being a leader or being a follower, depending on what the purpose is. Let’s not confuse what a leader is supposed to be with what we see in today’s world of corrupt, asinine “leaders” whose only goal is self gratification.’ [end Mallette quote]… It is possible to gain critical mass and to get that mass to peaceful non compliance if they believe in the direction, but they will need help and to be shown the way. I think PJ [Merola] has lasted quite a long time being seen as a leader, whether he liked it or not.”

Another user had this to say:

“Ostensibly, in this Movement, there is no “authority.” That’s not strictly true. To the extent everyone behaves himself and is civil, authority isn’t exerted. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist; there’s definitely a benign authority underlying this Movement, and you can find it by spouting foolishness on this forum actually. We’re simply not at a point yet where we can call on a computer to solve all our personal disputes mathematically, so we still need someone who can put his foot down if that becomes necessary.”

Did you get that? A Zeitgeist member admitting that the rhetoric about not having authority is not strictly true. This is an abject admission that the Zeitgeist Movement’s oft-repeated slogan about not having leaders is an outright lie.

What else have they been lying about? Well, what’s even more amazing is that Zeitgeisters, in their hasty about-face, have begun criticizing the formerly untouchable guru Jacque Fresco—again raising exactly the same questions about him that critics of the whole project have been raising for years. For example, the issue of Fresco keeping his designs secret, ostensibly to prevent them from being ripped off, is used by one Zeitgeister as a means to question the guru:

“Jacque has been hiding his most important work since he started, I wonder if he ever realized that if somebody actually ‘exploited’ his works in a commercial way, he would be doing him a favour to go in the trouble of actually implementing it, furthermore it would end up so sustainable (according to his teachings) that money would end up being unnecessary due to the access/abundance of such cities.”

Later this same user seems to question whether Fresco has been using deceptive (dare we say cult-like?) practices to recruit people:

“Jacque is senile, grumpy, unreasonable and repetitive. Sometimes I feel he is trying to brainwash people, but then I remember the majority of grandpas repeat stories over and over again until exhaustion, and they rarely agree with younger people, because “they know more”. Even if one just repeats what he just said, but because it came out of one’s mouth, it is no longer valid.”

These admissions become all the more ironic—and also a bit sad—when one realizes that the Zeitgeisters who made them are not entirely incapable of recognizing that they’ve been scammed, but that they can only voice these conclusions after Peter Joseph Merola gives them leave to do so. Before last week, the idea of a Zeitgester openly criticizing Jacque Fresco, or even worse, suggesting that the criticism of an anti-Zeitgeist “troll” (such as me) had the slightest shred of validity, would have been an offense so grave as to result in immediate banning from their forum. But today, it’s orthodoxy, because Merola went first in criticizing Fresco and the Venus Project. Without that go-ahead, none of the Zeitgeisters who made these telling admissions would dared to have voiced these opinions. This is a key example of the monkey-see, monkey-do cult mentality of the Zeitgeist Movement, which is the next point I’ll mention.

3. The Cult Mentality.

If anyone doubted previously that the Zeitgeist Movement is a cult, the events of this past week should disabuse them of that notion. Even if the internal dynamics of this schism were not classic hallmarks of a cult, certainly the Zeitgeisters’ reactions to it are.

My own view of whether Zeitgeist is a cult has undergone an evolution over the past few months. Last summer and fall I did not believe they were truly a cult, and I said so. Since the beginning of 2011, however, I’ve changed my view. I believe Zeitgeist is a cult. I’m basing my judgment off the Operation Clambake definition of a cult, which gives five characteristics:

• It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members.
• It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
• Its founder/leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
• It believes ‘the end justifies the means’ in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
• Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

The Zeitgeist Movement meets all five of these characteristics. The psychological coercion inherent in its recruiting practices is visible from the insistence by Zeitgeisters that “the movies aren’t the movement” and the ostensible downplaying of conspiracy theories in their “official” ideology, despite the fact that conspiracy theories are their #1 recruiting tool and the unspoken underlying worldview that unites their otherwise disparate membership. The other four characteristics are so obvious that they don’t need explication here.

Two events in particular convinced me that Zeitgeist is a cult: first, the development of the “enemies list” by which the movement keeps track of the critics and detractors—including me—whom it hates most vituperatively; and second, the coordinated efforts, with which Peter Merola appears to have been personally involved, to silence dissent of the organization online, especially on YouTube, by organizing members to “flag” critical videos and get them taken down, regardless of whether the criteria used to “flag” them are valid or not. These two behaviors are not characteristic of any legitimate organization. They are undeniable earmarks of a destructive cult seeking to manipulate its own public image and the image of itself in the minds of its followers.

Since the April 14 schism, most Zeitgeisters have been behaving like lemmings. They have followed unquestioningly every cue, every hint by their leader, Peter Joseph Merola. What was previously unthinkable—open criticism of Jacque Fresco—became not only thinkable, but the hallmark of loyalty to Merola and his vision. Prior orthodoxy—the facile insistence that “we have no leaders”—crumbled without hesitation when it became clear that the person who was the leader, Peter Merola, was about to depart. Now the Zeitgeisters are falling in, again unquestioningly, behind the latest party line, which is “Zeitgeist is here to stay” and “we have no morale problem,” pleasant stiff-upper-lip fictions that completely deny the reality of the deep dysfunction that exists within their dangerously fragile organization. If a power struggle develops for leadership of the cult, look for each competing faction to assert these shibboleths as their mantras, and deny that their competitors represent the “true” Zeitgeist as the now-departed (?) prophet Peter Merola would have envisioned.

Zeitgeist and its adherents exhibit every single characteristic of faithful cult believers. They follow their leader unquestioningly, and bizarrely without even realizing how deeply in his thrall they have been, at least up to this point. They cannot countenance disagreement with their ideology and seek to eradicate even the slightest criticism of it with the vehemence of an Islamist on a holy Jihad. They believe that Zeitgeist, the Venus Project and a Resource Based Economy are not only the best, but in fact the only viable ideas for improving society. And they are all afraid—deeply afraid—of the events unleashed this past week. As their fear increases, so does their vehemence in defense of their belief system. Zeitgeist is a wounded animal, and most people know that animals, when wounded, are more dangerous than ever.

4. Focus on External Enemies.

One of the reasons I’ve become convinced in recent months that Zeitgeist is a cult is the incredible amount of attention and effort that they have lavished upon refuting their critics, and the monochromatic brush with which they paint them. Very similar to the way the Church of Scientology denounces any of their critics as “Suppressive Persons,” the Zeitgeist cult labels their own detractors as “trolls,” and devotes a considerable percentage of their daily activity to refuting, denouncing and abusing them. Cults thrive on external enemies and fostering an “us versus them” mentality. It doesn’t take much observation of this organization to see this phenomenon in action. Remember, they have an official enemies list, which is rather odd for an organization that claims it’s motivated by altruism and a desire to help the entire human race.

The schism between Zeitgeist and the Venus Project has not tamped down this tendency. In fact, in some quarters it seems to have exacerbated it. Take, for example, the blog posted on April 15 by Zeitgeist Movement spokesman “VTV” where he states:

“Recently there have been some disagreements between Peter Joseph and the Venus Project. And now my research on the “TROLL” documentary gets more data in the form of all of the people spreading hysteria that this will mean that the movement will somehow fold. I am going to be blunt about this. This quite simply, is nonsense… I am asking people to stop contributing to the hysteria. Stop posting links to these trolls videos. They are having quite the laugh at our expense. And your giving them a reward. If people do post these videos then explain to them that this is NOT the end of the Zeitgeist movement.”

Another prominent Zeitgeist blogger is also quick to fire back at the cult’s enemies. Ed V. of “Plan B From The Bacardi Room” refers to “vultures” in this particular post but that term is interchangeable with “trolls”:

“The vultures were also quick to jump on (what they perceived to be) the carcass, the final nail in the coffin of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. Videos quickly appeared on the YouTube channels belonging to critics, highlighting the critique Fresco made, with added phrases such as “this is the end.” While I’m sure that is the intent of their actions, and btw these are the same people that insanely yell that we supporters are in a cult, I’m afraid that’s all they can hope for.”

There you have it. Anything that is wrong with the Zeitgeist Movement is the fault of “trolls” or “vultures.” No one can point out that the seeds of Zeitgeist’s disintegration were identified long ago by critics without that person being labeled a “troll,” and officials within the movement are warning Zeitgeist members not to pay attention to “trolls.” This while Zeitgeist’s own house is burning to the ground. The focus on external enemies is extremely telling, and yet another clear indication that Zeitgeist has crossed the line into being a cult.

5. What Happens Now?

This is, of course, the big question. While it’s clear that Zeitgeist and Venus have divorced permanently—or at least so long as Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows are in charge of it—it’s less clear what becomes of the cult or what happens now. Zeitgeisters themselves are understandably bewildered and chagrined by these developments. One cult member admitted she was moved to tears by listening to Peter Merola rage at his former allies:

“When Peter started, I lost it… Not ashamed to say I cried through the entire interview. This is incredibly disheartening… I would have never heard of TVP without TZM. It really hurts to see someone grasp so hard for power and control of something, against the very system that abides that ideology.”

Early signs are that there may be a power struggle in the Zeitgeist Movement, or at least a jockeying for position by those who have survived the divorce. Most notably, VTV has offered himself—predictably—as a potential leader. Here he is on the ZM forums proudly announcing his candidacy:

“The people that come to mind [for leadership of the movement] are: Doug Mallette, Brandy Hume. And I do a pretty good job.”

Mallette probably won’t take the job. He seems to be distancing himself from the cult, and quite wisely. (Can you blame him? Would you want to run a movement this dysfunctional?) He even went so far in a recent Facebook post to criticize the cult and its reliance on conspiracy theories:

“Also, not to let TZM off the hook, I’m not happy, and have not been for a while if anyone has paid any attention, with how TZM is organized…or disorganized as the case seems to be.  There is no proper professional structure to help facilitate the flow of information.  It seemed as though TZM was trying to get there, but it’s not there. And we cannot be bogged down by topics that have little to do with advancing the world to a Type 1 Civilization, which is what the RBE effectively represents.  And yes, I’m talking about Conspiracy Theory rhetoric and mystical ‘higher consciousness’ rhetoric.  What one personally believes is one thing, but in the most serious of stances, none of that has anything to do with advancing the world into a RBE paradigm.”

For Merola’s part, there are some indications that, if he reemerges into the public eye, he will do so explicitly and unabashedly to promote the conspiracy theories that made him famous in the first place. Also on Facebook, Acharya S., true name D.M. Murdock—who wrote the fact-free book that the anti-religious part of Zeitgeist: The Movie is based on—also made a Facebook post suggesting that Merola is ready to join forces with her to continue exposing what a huge lie she thinks Christianity is (a screenshot appears here):

“It’s clear that Zeitgeist 1 is Peter’s vision, whereas TZM is essentially Jacque’s. PJ [Merola] stands behind the first part of ZG1, as is obvious from the fact that he and I created a Sourcebook for the first part together….He is also producing a video of me giving a statement about ZG1.1.”

If this comes to pass, we’re essentially back where we started from: Peter Merola out there pushing conspiracy theories and the irresponsible pseudohistory of D.M. Murdock, and Jacque Fresco puttering around in his garage in Venus, Florida, dreaming about bubble cities and the brave new world of tomorrow where robots and computers rule the world.

There’s a neat, almost Götterdämmerung quality about this. Is this how it ends for our friends who were going to remake human civilization in Jacque Fresco’s image? Only time will tell, but certainly it’s already been fascinating to watch the implosion of this very strange and interesting cult happen in real-time across my computer screen for the past week.

Thanks for reading.

VoiceofReason467 comes out of Communist closet

Neil DeGrasse Tyson on the Venus Project

Re: [Other] Is it true that you applaud The Venus Project?

Neil deGrasse Tyson
to me

show details 11:32 AM (1 hour ago)

>> From: lol@no.com
>> Date: April 20, 2011 7:45:40 PM EDT
>> To: stachow@amnh.org
>> Subject: [Other] Is it true that you applaud The Venus Project?
>>
>> Robert Dobbs sent a message using the contact form at http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/contact/other.<br /> >>
>> The Zeitgeist Movement has stated that you applaud the Venus Project. Is this true? I find it hard to believe that you would support such nonsense. Could I please get an official statement on your opinion of the Venus Project?

Thanks for your interest and concerns. I don't make official statements. I am not an agency. I am not a political platform. I simply have conversations with people. The relevant exchange follows, in time order. I note that strong philosophies (be they religious or secular) tend to filter what they see and hear such that what's left over supports their world views. Understandable, if not forgivable.
-NDTyson

*************************
Neil deGrasse Tyson
http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/</p>

==================================================

>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: jeffllots@gmail.com
>>> Date: April 19, 2011 1:16:21 AM EDT
>>> To: stachow@amnh.org
>>> Subject: [Other] The Venus Project
>>>
>>> Jeffrey Stoll sent a message using the contact form at http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/contact/other.<br /> >>>
>>> Dear Mr. Tyson,
>>>
>>> I am currently looking into the Venus Project and I am trying to take a skeptical approach to what my opinion should be of it. I would like to ask a prominent member of the scientific community about their opinion on the project. Thus Mr. Tyson what is your opinion of the Venus Project? Thank you for your time and I apologize for my irregular grammar.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Jeffrey Stoll

> From: Neil deGrasse Tyson <tyson@amnh.org>
> Date: April 19, 2011 12:56:53 PM EDT
> To: jeffllots@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Other] The Venus Project
>
> I applaud the efforts of anyone trying to make a difference in the world, however unreachably utopian the mission statement may be. -NDTyson
>
> *************************
> Neil deGrasse Tyson
> Department of Astrophysics
> & Director, Hayden Planetarium
> American Museum of Natural History
> Central Park West at 79th Street
> New York, NY 10024
>
> http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/</p>

>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 12:01 AM, Jeffrey Stoll wrote:
>
>> Thank you for responding Mr. Tyson. I was wondering if you have delved
>> deep enough into the project to learn about its concept of a
>> "Resource-Based Economy" and if so I would like to hear from you about
>> your opinion of that single concept. I completely understand your view
>> that with circular cities, no government, and a complete renovation of
>> the education system makes the Venus Project sound like the utopian
>> cities and communes from the various cult-like groups throughout
>> history that have tried to solve societies problems in a similar
>> fashion. Again I apologize for my irregular grammar. -Jeffrey T. Stoll

Venus on my mind...

— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) June 5, 2012

The first Venus Project interview after the split

TZM & TVP split on TS3

Photo Credit: Justin Templer

Noel Hunter quits TZM

Peter Joseph starts attacking the Venus Project

VTV says TZM isn't going anywhere

K.
People- I'm not "going anywhere" in effect nor is The Zeitgeist Movement. The Zeitgeist Movement has existed to help TVP. If TVP doesnt want our help, we adapt.
Nothing Changes in the end.
My interest to remove myself from the forefront is not a reaction to Jacques' statements alone for I have been trying to get that done for a while; many who give talks & coordinate know I have been trying to do this for about a year. This is why I announced two weeks ago that the radio show would no longer be the "Peter Joseph..." but "ZM Global" for many others to talk. I also almost didn't attend Zday London for that reason as well.
Contrary to this idea of removing "hero" worship and the importance of not having a "cult of personality" notion... is the rhetoric now coming from TVP camp. Well, my feelings aside, their approach to make themselves the "source" of everything and demand credit will only backfire.
Also, TZM has been doing a DAMN good job of promoting this direction, with likely the largest mass following for such a thing in history, given the short time frame we have been in existence. So please don't let Fresco's comment make you feel otherwise.
At any rate, everyone please stop speculating on this and move forward!
~p
ps: and thanks for the supportive comments. I give Jacque the benefit of the doubt, of course, and think he is simply going through a strange time with perhaps some negative influences that are reducing his objectivity with poor information.

The Zeitgeist movement is not going anywhere. on V RADIO will air 04/15. http://tobtr.com/s/1771605 #BlogTalkRadio

— Neil Kiernan (@VTV115) April 15, 2011

Peter Joseph steps down

Re: Jascque Fresco says TZM doens't understand VP/RBE

I uploaded a @YouTube video http://t.co/87GPOofc The End of The Zeitgeist Movement (Re-Upload) *FALSE FLAGGED*.mp4

— The Most Goodest JimJesus🤘🏴💰🍕 (@JimJesus) November 27, 2012

 

The Zeitgeist Movement: Boxing Activism

Cowpote Radio calls Roxanne Meadows

VTV admits RBE is not possible

Mark Edge of @FreeTalkLive and Neil of V-Radio 'debate' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STp8AFldD3w #Zeitgeist #TVP #TZM #RBE

— The Most Goodest JimJesus🤘🏴💰🍕 (@JimJesus) April 6, 2011

VTV caught begging for money

Venus Project Spokesman Neil Kiernan Caught Begging for Money on Facebook